Resource Type: Lesson plans

Sonali leads a discussion about forgiveness with the Pilgrims, starting with the Jain festival of Paryushana, ending with Spencer talking about his brother who died on Everest.

Transcript

Pilgrimage Moments: The Art of Forgiveness Transcript

Amanda: Look at this, he's laid this table and everything for us. He's so lovely.

Spencer: Did Eshaan do all this? What a legend.

Eshaan: Right then Pilgrims.

Eshaan: That's very kind. But you've got to taste it first.

Sonali: And then we can give compliments to the chef.

Amanda: 100% on presentation.

Spencer: Mashallah.

Eshaan: Thank you. Brother. Thank you very much. Well, um, thank you to whatever it is you believe in for bringing us all together and giving us the opportunity to experience nature in all its glory, and for giving me the time, ability and space to be able to cook and feed my fellow pilgrims. Because feeding people is the way I show love. So if nothing else, even if you don't like the food, you at least know that I love you.

Eshaan: Thank you.

Eshaan: Enjoy. Enjoy the meal.

Sonali: Eshaan. Thank you. This means even more for me because it is the eve of the holiest eight days in the Jain calendar.

Spencer: Oh, really?

Sonali: Tonight, so as of tomorrow, lots of Jains around the world will fast. Some of them even for eight days. Right. No food. I've never attempted the full eight days. I've not even. I've never gone over one day because it's not something that I want to do. Right. It's called Kshamavani . It's the festival of forgiveness. And what we say to each other is anytime you see anyone, you know, it's been part of your life over the last year, you say Micchami Dukkadam, which means please forgive me for anything that I may have said to you that offended you. Yeah. You know, on purpose, accidentally and all of that.

Tom: I think if you don't mind, seeing as we're getting in these, you know, thin spaces in these spiritual head spaces which I have been in like a few times during this pilgrimage, I would like to use this opportunity to have one day fast tomorrow.

Spencer: I'll do 24 hours with you.

Eshaan: I'm also happy to try.

Spencer: For Jains, 24 hours is nothing. And it's a little show of solidarity. Solidarity for Jains. And we should do it.

Tom: What is it to say? Forgive me for anything that I've done.

Sonali: Micchami Dukkadam,

Tom: Micchami Dukkadam,

Sonali: Which again.

Tom: Micchami Dukkadam,

Spencer: There's a big, um, theme of forgiveness through lots of the stuff that you said around Jainism in particular. Is that a really common theme through most religion, or is it specifically to Jain?

Sonali: My understanding is it's part of a lot of religions. People always say, you cannot move on if you don't forgive. It's the greatest form of love, you know. Has any good come out of someone not forgiving someone?

Eshaan: I've not forgiven God for what happened to my mum. She died very unexpectedly in the space of a week.

Spencer: I find it really interesting that you would blame Allah for taking your mother.

Eshaan: It's not so much that I blamed God. It's just that I knew my mum believed.

Spencer: Yeah.

Eshaan: And I was told my whole life. God decides, God gets involved. God decides your fate. And when I get criticised by other Muslims, as I often do because of my comedy, those critics. Whenever they come at me, I always think to myself, you know, you're so fervent in this belief. The moment my mum took her last breath, there was this being that my mum also believed in. Made the decision, according to your scripture, to take my mum away from me. And for me it was like, who is he to decide that? So I know I haven't let go of that. And I know a lot about Islam, and there's a lot about Islamic philosophy that I'm quite proud of and I think is beautiful and wonderful and I, I share with you, Alhamdulillah, all this stuff, you know, I'll share with you guys, but I will never, ever there will never be a time in my life where I will ever be a practising Muslim.

Spencer: I personally don't feel that it needs to be literal forgiveness, like sitting down with someone and go you are forgiven. You know, like my brother's death, my parents and my other older brother knew that. You know, climbing Everest was a dangerous thing, particularly in 1999. Um, we were originally told that Mike was kind of lost on the mountain, and as a family, we treated his death, just as you would. Um, it was only kind of weeks later that we heard that there were some very serious issues with oxygen on the mountain. We thought for a very long time that it essentially was negligence. And it's very difficult to to prove any of that. But it's what we were hearing and it was a difficult thing to grow up with. I hated those people. Like I grew up hating those people, and I would I would get drunk when I was young and I would go into these holes of, like, wanting to harm these people. Yeah. Um, and I don't get that at all anymore. I don't necessarily forgive them, but I have let it go. Yeah. You know, there's no point in feeling the pain and the agony of the death 25 years after it's happened. I just realised that ultimately, harboring any kind of negative energy towards these people was was a waste of my time. I felt, you know, I've certainly tried to use Mike's death as a driver for good in my life. And, you know, I, I pray to him from time to time and kind of feel like he's a good presence in my life. Instead of feeling sad about him not being with me or wondering what could have been all the time.

Eshaan: If you don't, if you don't mind me asking. You don't have to answer the question if you don't want to. What do you think Mike would say to you now if you saw the man you become?

Spencer: Mike would love my kids. Mike would love my kids. And he would love my wife and like. And that's. I think he'd be delighted for me in that regard.

Eshaan: He'd also love you. I mean, the fact that he was on Everest doing something so extreme. And the few days that I've known you, you are 100% his brother. You are a chip off the old block. Yeah, I've already messaged my friends about you and said, you know, it's so great to have someone like Spencer in my life because you inspire me. Do you know what I mean?

Spencer: That's very kind, he inspired me, so.

Eshaan: Yeah. So there you go. He's just passing down.

Sonali: Michael's here with us.

Spencer: Yeah, that's very kind of you. Thank you.

Pilgrimage Moments: The Art of Forgiveness

Video length - 06.10

In this Pilgrimage Moment, Spencer and Eshaan discuss whether or not St Winefried and Jesus Christ were real.

Transcript

Pilgrimage Moments: Fact or Fiction?

Spencer: The Winifred story dates 630 A.D, yeah?

Eshaan: Right. Yeah.

Spencer: So 630 years after Christ. Like when? At what point does, um, fiction blend to turn to actual history? Like, do you know what I mean?

Eshaan: Winifred existed. From what I understand, Winifred existed. Like, she's a real woman, irrespective of the story.

Spencer: Winifred was a real person?

Eshaan: A real person, a real person from a noble family, probably quite well-educated. There's evidence to prove that.

Spencer: Okay. So? So I thought, like, Winifred was a kind of.

Eshaan: Just a character.

Spencer: Well, I wasn't sure. Right? Yeah, yeah. So. But the person the Saint Winifred existed?

Eshaan: Existed.

Spencer: Okay. Okay. So okay. That does that does make a difference to me because I have been sat here thinking that, you know, this is all Cinderella mounds type thing.

Eshaan: So you thought this was a bit like a Winifred theme park, a bit like Harry Potter Park or something?

Spencer: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically. Well, no, I'm just wondering when things became more, um, real.

Eshaan: Perhaps when the people were able to document these things, when you were able to start beginning to document.

Spencer: So, like, Jesus Christ definitely existed?

Eshaan: Yeah.

Spencer: I thought he could have been made up as well.

Spencer: That's not disputed. So I didn't realise that. So I thought Jesus Christ was either something that you believe in or you don't. But I, I kind of thought he was fictitious.

Eshaan: Yeah. No, no, no.

Eshaan: He's a real person.

Spencer: I honestly feel like this is a big deal.

Eshaan: Yeah, I can see it in your eyes.

Spencer: Yeah, yeah. No, it is like I've not. I have kind of likened religion to, to to just fairytales before.

Eshaan: Yeah yeah of course.

Spencer: Because it's kind of like well they're great stories. Yeah. People. And they transcend time because they're such good stories. Yeah. But like the fact that some of the I was about to say, key players when Jesus Christ was a bit more than the key player I think.

Eshaan: Muslims think he's the vice captain. Yeah, they think Muhammed is the captain and Jesus is the vice captain. That's what they believe.

Spencer: Muhammed is Allah is he?

Eshaan: No.

Spencer: Who is Muhammed?

Eshaan: Muhammed is the prophet.

Eshaan: He's the prophet of God.

Spencer: I think. Let's not.

Eshaan: There's too much.

Spencer: It's too much for my kind of medium sized mind in this moment.

Eshaan: Yeah to take in.

Spencer: But I'm. I'm far more into Winifred now that I know she was real.

Amanda: So you're all excited that you found out that Jesus was a real person Spencer?

Spencer: Yeah. Yeah, honestly. Honestly I kind of feel a bit stupid but yeah yeah, it's changed a lot. I did. Yeah.

Amanda: No, he was here. He was on this earth.

Spencer: Real dude!

Amanda: Yeah, he's a real dude.

Christine: But is there like photographic evidence?

Eshaan: There weren't photographs.

Christine: See is there any evidence at all?

Amanda: Yeah, it's all it's all scriptured.

Pilgrimage Moments: Fact or Fiction?

Video length - 03.15

In this Pilgrimage Moment, The Pilgrims visit St Winefried’s Well and find out about the story of St Winefried.

Transcript

Pilgrimage Moments: St Winefried’s Well

Narrator: The pilgrims arrive at Saint Winifred's well. It's known by some as the Lords of Wales.

Amanda: This is exciting.

Spencer: It's very. It's very beautiful.

Narrator: The well has been a Christian pilgrim destination since the eighth century, and these days has around 30,000 visitors a year. The precinct covering the well dates back to 1500.

Spencer: Oh, wow.

Narrator: But the spring water has always been known for its healing properties.

Michaela: Oh, look at this. Look at this.

Sonali: Roman baths vibes.

Amanda: Absolutely.

Michaela: So this is the source. Oh, wow.

Amanda: It's amazing.

Michaela: So Winnifred was the daughter of a local prince. In around 630 A.D she was visiting the original church that once stood here when Caradoc, a local chieftain, attempted to seduce her. Having recently taken a vow of celibacy. She rejected his advances, sending him into a blind rage.

Eshaan: Oh, no. Men.

Spencer: Honestly.

Michaela: She ran from him towards the church and her uncle Beuno, but the thwarted lover pursued her and chopped off her head.

Eshaan: What?

Michaela: In the place where her head fell. A spring of water suddenly appeared. Which is this.

Eshaan: What's this here?

Michaela: It was at this point that her Uncle Beuno allegedly took up her head, placed it back on her body. He then prayed and brought her back to life. So that's a real miracle story.

Amanda: It is. Yeah.

Michaela: Are you going?

Spencer: Yeah.

Michaela: It's flipping cold.

Narrator: The spring water is icy cold.

Michaela: That's fresh.

Spencer: This is lovely.

Narrator: For those seeking a cure. Certain traditions have persisted over time.

Spencer: Three laps of the pool.

Amanda: That is for the healing isn't it?

Narrator: Like walking around the pool three times. Or total immersion three times.

Sonali: One more.

Amanda: Well done!

Pilgrimage Moments: St Winefried’s Well

Video length - 02.57

https://understandinghumanism.org.uk/

One Life, Live it Well, featuring Alice Roberts, explores the humanist approach to living a fulfilling life. Comparing our lives to a piece of string, with a beginning and an end, this short animation emphasises the ways non-religious people might shape what lies in between and find happiness and meaning in their lives. Highlighting the arts, science, health, relationships, and human rights as the ingredients of a good life, it explores the importance humanists place on freedom, responsibility, and connections, and how they believe we might live life to the fullest and leave something behind after we are gone.

One Life, Live it Well

Video length - 02.36

Published date - Jul 2024

Published date - Apr 2024

A short film following the experiences of two young women’s neurodivergence (Autism and ADHD) and the difficulties they encountered in the education system as they journeyed to understand themselves. This documentary highlights the issues surrounding diagnosis for women and girls in the UK and was created in partnership with the BFI during the BFI documentary residential 2024.

Transcript

Not So Typical

Ruby: As a kid, I didn't really realise that I thought differently and I felt differently. I just felt like a bit of an outsider at times, and I felt like I didn't fully have control in how I was behaving and how I was feeling as much as other people did.

Eva: I had so many friendship issues in school. Um, primary school and secondary school specifically because I wasn't diagnosed, I ended up calling myself a nomad friend. I would move from group to group. I actually struggled really badly with bullying. That period of my life of just being like, I can't change who I am and you're bullying me for it. I got really upset.

Ruby: I remember always feeling like I couldn't settle into a group in school. I got bullied quite badly through like year 7 to year 9 and that was all surrounding, like how I was like, and I never really fully understood it. But people were just always like, you're too much like you're too loud. You're too intense. If I didn't do my homework, it was because I was lazy or my attendance was really low because I couldn't be bothered to come into school kind of thing. Whereas there was actually like an issue that was going on that was just completely undetected. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 17 years old. I think when it came to getting my diagnosis, it took quite a long time. There's always waiting lists. I started looking into getting the diagnosis at around 15, and I didn't actually get my formal diagnosis and assessment until I was 17.

Eva: I was diagnosed with autism when I was 16, a month before my 17th birthday. My brother's diagnosis was the spurring point of mine. Girls are diagnosed later than boys, especially with autism and a lot of medical conditions. When they first did the research on the topic, they only did it on white boys. They only use them as their subject, and so their symptoms, in a way, are the ones that they look for.

Ruby: I actually don't really know how I got through school with it being undetected by teachers, because I think, to be honest, like when I look back, I was quite textbook ADHD. I am someone that can't sit still. I've always been fidgety. There's a lot of issues with concentration. I've just felt very misunderstood at school and feel like when you're not made for the society that we live in, you are isolated within such a massive group of people and it can feel like so detrimental to like your mental health. When I think about it, it makes me feel really sorry for that girl, because at the time I was only like, you know, 14, 15 and when you feel like you don't fit into like society, like society was not built for you, you like, you have no other place to go.

Eva: Primary school. I used to cry in a corner when I was overwhelmed, and it was a corner because no one could come behind me. I was safe, no one could touch me. I was there, but it was a lot of almost loneliness. At secondary school I just hated the noise. It was always really loud and so I liked to sit outside, even if it was raining, because it's not noisy outside.

Ruby: When I actually got my diagnosis. I remember speaking to my mother was being like, it's crazy that that was never suggested to us. I got tested for bipolar, I got tested for all sorts of things, but they never even thought about it.

Eva: I find with a lot of people I've spoken to, they're like, oh, they said I had borderline personality disorder. They said I had bipolar. Um, and they get all these misdiagnoses because everything had been done for men. Why aren't we talking about something that half the population of the world goes through or will go through in their life?

Ruby: I think when it comes to women, there is a lot of issues when it comes to getting diagnosed because women's ADHD can manifest in such a different way. I think because women in general kind of have to put on a facade anyway. We're used to performing. That's constantly what I've been doing my whole life. When I was a child, I was always told I was bossy. So then I think I then internalised that and I was like, I can't be that because people don't like bossy women. So yeah, I definitely tried to be something I wasn't, but then that made it so that I was just struggling inside. Whereas now, like I viewed the world just completely differently after I got my diagnosis.

Eva: My diagnosis did empower me. It kind of gave me a reason, and with a reason I could go about doing the things I wanted to do. It definitely gave me freedom, and I feel like I found empowerment in the freedom.

Ruby: I'm so much healthier with my mind. I'll take up however much space I need.

Not So Typical

Video length - 06.03

This clip comes from the BBC series: Pilgrimage – The Road Through Portugal.

The Pilgrims reach the end of their long journey in the city of Fatima, one of the world’s largest Catholic pilgrimage sites. They go straight to the famous Sanctuary which was built and developed over nine decades on the field where the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared to three shepherd children. Dominating the square is the Basilica of Our Lady of the Rosary, finished in 1953.

Su and Vicky visit the Chapel of the Apparitions, built on the very spot where the shepherd children said the Virgin Mary appeared. Here they are moved to see devout believers approach the chapel on their knees, praying for favours or fulfilling promises to the Virgin Mary.

Watch full episodes on BBC iPlayer.

Transcript

Pilgrimage Moments: Arriving at the Fatima Sanctuary

Rita: We're here. Look, guys, this is it. Oh, no. It's all we've got here. We did it! Flipping heck!

Narrator: Once a small rural village, Fatima is now a thriving city. At its center is the famous sanctuary. Covering a huge area. The sanctuary was built and developed over nine decades on the field, where the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared to the three shepherd children. Dedicated to the Virgin Mary. It's one of the world's largest Catholic pilgrimage sites. The Basilica of Our Lady of the Rosary. Finished in 1953, dominates the square. And it's here. The pilgrims will join a crowd of tens of thousands for the candlelight procession tomorrow evening.

Rita: Oh, this obviously takes thousands of people. Yeah.

Shane: A big old gap. Oh.

Rita: Well, I didn't know it'd be as big as this. It's magnificent. Look at it. Can you believe tomorrow night this is going to be chocker full of people? Yeah, I mean, this is really quite something else. Well done. Well done. We've done it. Well done.

Shane: Good job.

Narrator: In the middle of the square in front of the basilica is the chapel of the apparitions. Originally a small wooden chapel built in 1919 on the spot where the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared. It's now the heart and most sacred space of the sanctuary. As Sue and Vicki explore. Their attention is drawn by believers taking a path on their knees to the chapel, praying for a favour or to fulfill the promise to the Virgin Mary.

Rita: I don't know how they managed it.

Vicky: What are you saying Sue?

Rita: That lady in the red, they're on their knees. And the guy there look because they're so devout. Oh, you're not being funny. The agony of it. No, no no no.

Vicky: Can you see she's doing her rosary as she goes?

Rita: Gordon Bennett, you'd be nearly dead, wouldn't you? The pain of it. And I suppose.

Vicky: That's a part of it, you know, to show how dedicated they are. Their devotion.

Rita: Yes, I think it's fantastic. This will live in the memory, seeing all these devout people walking on their knees. Whether you agree with it or not, it's quite, um, moving. Really?

Bobby: It's a view, isn't it? That is a view. And the way the light is actually just shining on the basilica? Yeah. Absolutely gorgeous. The thing is.

Vicky: It's it's like. I feel like it's more than just the visuals, but you could feel that there's something special here.

Pilgrimage Moments: Arriving at the Fatima Sanctuary

Video length - 03.33

This clip comes from the BBC series: Pilgrimage – The Road Through Portugal.

The Pilgrims visit the Carmelite convent where Lucia – one of the children who witnessed the miracle at Fatima – eventually lived as a nun until she died in 2005.

Bobby helps the Pilgrims to delve deeper into Sister Lucia’s story, and they meet Sister Anna Sophia, a Carmelite nun who had the privilege of knowing Sister Lucia in the final years of her life. She paints a vivid picture of Sister Lucia’s character, describing her as joyous, humble, and deeply humane.

However, Pentecostal Christian Shane finds it challenging to connect with Sister Anna Sophia’s account due to his belief that people should be free to pray directly to God without intermediary figures.

Watch full episodes on BBC iPlayer.

Transcript

Pilgrimage Moments: Visiting the convent of Sister Lucia

Bobby: We love our hills now, don't we now. We do love a good hill.

Sue: A hill and a good start.

Narrator: Sue, Vicky, Millie, Shane and Bobby are going to a convent with an extraordinary connection to the sanctuary at Fatima.

Bobby: So I think direction wise we are heading. So going up there but there will be a reward. This is the convent that Sister Lucia joined.

Narrator: Sister Lucia was one of three shepherd children from Fatima, who in 1917 reported seeing apparitions of the Virgin Mary who told them to pray the Rosary to bring peace to the world and end the Great War. Lucia's cousins Francisco and Jacinta died of the Spanish flu aged only ten and nine. Lucia dedicated herself to a religious life. She became a nun in 1926 and lived at the convent in Coimbra until she died in her 90s.

Millie: When did she pass away? I think 2005.

Bobby: 2005 on 15th February. It became a national day of mourning. Oh, really? Portugal, she's like a mega, mega star.

Vicky: Is it still a convent with practicing nuns and that?

Bobby: It is. Yeah.

Vicky: This is amazing. I've actually ever met a nun. The closest I've got is I watched Sister Act. Oh, it's very nice.

Narrator: The pilgrims make their way up to the Saint Teresa convent, which was Sister Lucia's home for 57 years.

Sue: Look at this. Oh, look at it.

Millie: What's he looking at?

Sue: But there's a really big statue of Lucia. Oh it's of Lucia.

Bobby: Yeah, we can see she went up to 98, so she.

Vicky: Did nearly 100. I tell you, she had a good innings.

Sue: Are we allowed to go up and look?

Vicky: Yeah, let's have a look. For some reason, I didn't picture her with glasses.

Sue: Oh, wow. I could be her sister. Look.

Bobby: Hello.

Sue: You look. She looks lovely.

Millie: Yeah.

Sue: 98. Fabulous.

Narrator: It's a cloistered Carmelite convent, which means the nuns have very little contact with the outside world. Hello. Once the pilgrims have been let in. Bobby, the only Catholic in the group, shares what he knows about the story.

Bobby: Obviously, we have Lucia there. Yeah, after she joined the convent. Yeah. Dedicated her life to Virgin Mary. And then here we have a younger cousins, Francisco and Jacinta, dressed in this sort of traditional Portuguese. Can you see what he's got in his hand? It looks like a crutch. I think it's a shepherd's stick.

Millie: Mhm.

Sue: No, they were the ones that died. Weren't they?

Bobby: The cousins. Yes. It is sort of surreal to think our whole pilgrimage together, our journey, meeting all these people is all because of her and their cousins, their visions and how the story spread.

Sue: But you know what I meant to ask you. Is there any documented evidence that they constantly were ridiculed by everybody else, saying they made it up? It's fantasy even.

Bobby: Yeah. Even Lucia's mother.

Millie: Yeah.

Bobby: Um, beat her, saying rescind these visions that you had.

Millie: But she didn't believe them. Yeah.

Bobby: The mothers, they stopped making up these.

Sue: Well, you see, it's so farfetched. It's like that term, you know. What about the fairies at the bottom of the garden?

Narrator: As Carmelites. The sisters can only speak two hours a day. But the pilgrims have been given special permission to meet a nun who knew Lucia during the last ten years of her life. Sister Ana Sofia. Hello.

Nun: Welcome, welcome.

Millie: I'm sorry for my ignorance, but what are the bars for?

Nun: Yeah. Okay.

Sue: Like us pilgrims when we're walking. No luxury, no nothing. Yes, it's the same.

Nun: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bobby: What was Sister Lucia like when you met her?

Bobby: When Lucia had the apparitions as a child, Lucia's mother didn't believe and said, oh, Lucia tell everyone it didn't happen. What do you think about that?

Sue: Yes that's true.

Vicky: It's lovely to hear about from someone who actually met her. I feel like that's. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. You're amazing. Fantastic.

Sue: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Nun: Thank you. God bless you.

Sue: Thank you very much.

Nun: Have a nice travel.

Millie: Yes, yes. God bless you.

Nun: You pray for you. Thank you.

Sue: Thank you so much. She was so good. That lady I mean terrific. I mean her answers and everything. She was.

Millie: Really nice.

Narrator: As a Pentecostal born again Christian sister Ana Sofia's account didn't resonate with Shane.

Shane: The story was very interesting up until a point. Then it was like, I get what's going on here. I believe the, the, the intent is, is there, and the prayers and the praying for the people. And it's all very, very real. And they certainly believe it. But it's almost those prayers have no authority because they haven't a direct line to God. They're still going. They're still worshiping technically false idols, which is the only person meant to be worshiped as God himself. Not Mary, not Lucia, not Luke anything. The true route is direct to God, and anything that gets in the way is getting in your way.

Pilgrimage Moments: Visiting the convent of Sister Lucia

Video length - 07.01

This clip comes from the BBC series: Pilgrimage – The Road Through Portugal.

The Pilgrims continue their journey along the Northern Way, eager to delve deeper into the story of Fatima. Bobby enlightens the group by telling them about three shepherd children from the village of Fatima: 9-year-old Lucia and her younger cousins Francisco and Jacinta. On the 13th May 1917, they reported seeing a light descend from the sky and the appearance of the Virgin Mary, who told the children that to get to Heaven and to bring about world peace, they should pray the Rosary every day.

Over the next six months, the children reported seeing the Virgin Mary six times, including a final apparition on the 13th October, when they were promised a miracle. Word of the children’s visions spread rapidly, drawing a crowd of 70,000 people to witness what is now known as the Miracle of the Sun. It is said that the crowd saw the sun spinning in the sky, changing colour and size.

Fatima became a place of pilgrimage, and today it attracts over four million visitors a year.

Watch full episodes on BBC iPlayer.

Transcript

Pilgrimage Moments: The Story Of the Fatima Miracle

Narrator: As the pilgrims continue to follow the Northern Way, they are keen to know more about its origins and connection to the city of Fatima.

Vicky: Does anyone actually know the story of Fatima? Bobby does. Bobby does.

Bobby: Yeah. So there was a girl called Lucia who was nine, and her cousins, uh, Francisco and Jacinta, who aged seven and six. And they had, like, a divine experience on the 13th of May, 1917. A light came down and a lady appeared before them, um. And the lady, the lady, the Virgin Mary.

Vicky: So the lady.

Bobby: The the lady. And she said to them an instruction, if you want to get to heaven, you've got to pray the rosary every day over the course of the next six months, they saw together the Virgin Mary like six times.

Vicky: And everybody believed them. Yeah.

Narrator: The three shepherd children from Fatima claimed the Virgin Mary told them to pray the Rosary, to bring peace to the world and end the Great War. The children also said she promised that on her final apparition on October 13th, they would witness a miracle. Word of the children's vision spread and a crowd of around 70,000 gathered in the village of Fatima. What happened that day is now known as the miracle of the sun. It was reported that the crowd saw the sun spinning in the sky, changing colour and size. Fatima soon became a place of pilgrimage. The Catholic Church recognises the apparitions as credible, but it's not something Catholics have to believe. Today, the sanctuary attracts over 4 million visitors a year.

Pilgrimage Moments: The story of the Fatima miracle

Video length - 02.33

This clip comes from the BBC series: Pilgrimage – The Road to the Scottish Isles.

At the end of Will’s first day on the Pilgrimage, he is invited to share his personal beliefs with the group after dinner. Will opens up about his journey away from church attendance after his grandfather’s death, and his own battle with non-Hodgkin’s blood cancer as a child. He fondly recalls the comforting prayers he received during his hospital stay, highlighting the role of faith during times of hardship.

The discussion moves on to experiences of faith, not only during life’s trials but also during moments of joy and contentment.

Monty challenges Laurence about his lack of faith, despite his remarkable knowledge of religion. Laurence defends his position, saying he is happy with his “mechanical universe”, but willing to take part in religious ceremonies for his own non-religious reasons.

Shazia also reflects on her upbringing as the only Muslim and person of colour in a Roman Catholic school.

Together, these conversations help the Pilgrims to deepen their respect for each other’s faiths and personal beliefs.

Watch full episodes on BBC iPlayer.

Transcript

Pilgrimage Moments: The Lack of Faith

Narrator: Over dinner. The group are keen to learn more about their newest pilgrim.

Laurence: Will, you've been parachuted in to join us, and it's wonderful to have you here, but we have all declared where we stand in terms of our personal beliefs, our faiths. Which religious fence do you sit on?

Will: I'm pretty much on the fence. When my grandad died, my mum moved away and then we never went to church or anything. It was like one extreme to the other.

Shazia: If you were drowning, would you pray to God?

Will: Probably. I've never been in that position. You know where I've literally been fighting for my life or anything like that, apart from when I was like seven years old. And it's different when you're at that age, isn't it? You don't really know what's going on.

Louisa: What happened when you were seven years old?

Will: Well, I had non-Hodgkin's blood cancer. I was in Great Ormond Street, so that's when I had people in coming in praying and stuff like that. It was kind of comforting to know that they were like, they cared so much for me, and I'd like that.

Shazia: Did they work?

Will: Well? Yeah, I'm still here. So I guess it's strange, isn't it? Like when you're in desperate need you. I think you do need a faith. Or you need something like a god like. Because without sounding too morbid. But when you're when someone your son's on death's door or something, you want to hope that they go somewhere or that it's not the end.

Shazia: Yeah.

Louisa: I've never been in a situation where I've had to pray to God for something negative. I have only ever like, thank you for what, you know.

Laurence: That's so powerful because so many people don't do that. When it goes well, they just take it for granted. Mhm.

Monty: Yeah. But Lawrence, I wanted to ask you a question. Since you've been here, you've been very theoretical. Right. Whenever I'm speaking to you about faith it doesn't come from your heart. It doesn't, it comes from the mind.

Laurence: But I completely get that. You intellectualise everything.

Monty: I do intellucatualise everything. It's all coming from the books. It's not coming from your personal experience and heart. When you had a successful time, did you ever pray to God? Did you ever say to God, thank you for that great deal or something like that?

Laurence: Uh, no.

Monty: I think you can have a very great understanding of faith without having faith.

Laurence: Absolutely, absolutely.

Laurence: I think you can read as many books as you like, and I'm sure that Lawrence has read most of them, but he hasn't got faith.

Monty: No, I think you have strong faith within you, but you just don't know it.

Laurence: Monty, Monty. But the thing is that, you know, as I said right from the outset, I'm really happy with my mechanical universe.

Louisa: Tell me something. You christened your children. Yes. For the purpose that it would be easy for them to. Administratively much easier. Okay. You got married yourself in a church. I did, yes. You did. Why?

Laurence: You know, the the mise en scene of getting married, the, you know, the kind of the art direction of getting married for me had to happen in the church.

Nick: I think your your Christianity really is sort of the English middle class is a prayer.

Laurence: It is rather.

Nick: It's a social thing.

Laurence: It is. We know absolutely everybody in our village and we meet at church. I mean, not every Sunday.

Monty: So why do you go to church?

Laurence: Because we are all there together.

Louisa: We are all together.

Louisa: A certain type of religion is, as I said.

Laurence: Community.

Laurence: It's community.

Monty: I don't believe that. I believe you have inside you. You have strong faith. As we stripping away the hat, the scarf and everything.

Laurence: You can't lose the scarf.

Shazia: What he says. He's really happy the way he is. And I think you.

Laurence: Need to watch out slightly. I mean, I'm so fond of you, but one of the big things that we've almost really, really, you know, decided on as a family now is that we all respect each other's faiths, but we're not evangelizing. No one is trying to sell their faith to anybody else, I think. So, I mean, I love you to death, but you're not going to find a faith in me.

Laurence: I think there's a difference. And I think Monty grew up with a distinct community, and so did you.

Shazia: But the thing is, I went to a Roman Catholic school. I was the only Muslim in the whole school.

Laurence: But you stuck to the culture that you grew up.

Louisa: Can I ask you something? Were you the only person of color?

Shazia: Yeah.

Louisa: So there was no Hindus? There was no. No, I was the only Muslim.

Shazia: And I was the only brown girl in the whole school. And I had to go up every Friday and do mass, take Holy Communion. Did you feel different? Yeah.

Laurence: Did you feel different? Is it?

Shazia: And the thing with me is I'm used to being an outsider. Yeah, yeah.

Laurence: Um. Well, welcome to the merry band.

Will: Cheers, guys. Thanks for having me.

Laurence Very good. Well.

Pilgrimage Moments: The Lack of Faith

Video length - 05.02